Why I Believe Bill Nye Should Not Debate Creationism

If you are not already aware, Bill Nye (the Science Guy) and Ken Ham (founder of the Creation Museum) are scheduled to have a debate at the Creation Museum on February 4, 2014.

This debate was apparently triggered by a video posted by Bill Nye entitled, “Creationism is Not Appropriate For Children” on YouTube.  Not to be undone, Ken Ham posted his own response with embedded links to two other Ph.D.s who amplify his belief that evolution, not Creationism, is damaging to children.

If the goal is science education, then I believe this debate is a poor way to improve the reception of science education in the general public.  Why do I feel this way?

There is a poor or nebulous definition of evolution and science by both parties.

In his video, Bill Nye states, “Evolution is the fundamental idea in all of biology.”  I really like Bill Nye, but I’m sorry, Bill.  Evolution is not an idea.  It is a scientific theory.  If you’re going to have a debate about science, definitions become hugely important.  A scientific theory is a testable, falsifiable, and predictable explanation of natural phenomena.  If you couch evolution as an idea, you open the door to a debate about ideology, not science.

Of course, Ken Ham has science wrong as well. He says, “Science means knowledge – you can divide science into historical science … and observational science.”  No on both fronts.  First, science as it is practiced is not a definition but a method — specifically methodological naturalism.  It is the tool by which we understand the natural world — a narrow discipline, in fact, that seeks to pose answerable questions about nature.  Second, science is science.  All science is based on observations at some level — the dinosaur bones may not “come with labels on them,” but they are observable data that can measured, studied, and so forth.  So, there is not observable versus historical science — it’s all the same thing.

A scientist works under a theory, an explanation for some type of phenomenon in the natural world, to test hypotheses.  If you work on chemistry, you are working under (among other theories) the atomic theory which states that all matter is made of atoms with specific properties.  Until recently, chemists have done a bang up job of testing and predicting chemical reactions and their consequences without seeing directly into atoms.  That’s because the testable explanation (atomic theory) was effective for inferring what should occur.  So, to say that evolution is “historical science” which is “beliefs about the past” is a gross misconstruction of how science works.

When Ken Ham says, “If evolution were true … it would be so obvious to the kids …” he is ignoring the fact that many applicable theories of science are weird and not obvious.  For example, the theories of general and special relativity predict that time is experienced differently by different objects at different speeds and in different gravitational fields.  If you use satellite technology, those satellites whizzing in orbit around the earth have clocks that quickly go out of synch with those on earth (which is explained by the theories of relativity) and thus we have to take special measures to synchronize them with our devices on the earth (GPS comes to mind).  That is good science but not something particularly obvious to kids.

In a nutshell, science is like the honey badger of internet lore — it doesn’t care about your beliefs or opinions.  Data drives what is accepted and rejected.

We are again fighting a metaphysical clash of civilizations.

Based both on what Bill Nye and Ken Ham say, this debate is not about data.  A scientific debate would be about data.  Instead, we have what amounts to, in my mind, another metaphysical clash of civilizations.  Ken Ham and his organization are very clear on this.  He is not concerned about data, but rather showing that “Creationism teaches children that they’re special, that they’re made in the image of God.”  In that one statement, you have what is actually being debated spelled out: whether or not you believe in a particular deity in a particular way.  This is why Ken Ham, his organizations, and others like him make the leap from teaching evolution to teaching kids they’re “just animals” to gay marriage and so forth.

However, Bill Nye is not doing anyone a favor by saying, “In a couple of centuries that world view [creationism] will not exist … there’s no evidence for it.”  Nye has basically indicated that, yes, evolution is a world view, but it is supported by evidence.  And if that is true, then it follows that in this metaphysical clash of civilizations you have to pick a side.  At least, if you follow Ken Ham and his compatriots, that is likely what you are led to believe from such statements.

There is No Clear Distinction About Faith and Creationism

I have said this before, but it bears repeating – there is no conflict between science and faith.  Yet, that is precisely what this debate is already boiling down to.  Science is not faith – it is a tool for understanding the natural world.  Faith is a deeply personal set of beliefs that often cannot be demonstrated scientifically, but that makes them no less valid to the individuals that hold them.  This is not my idea, not by a long shot, but to rephrase the words of many who have come before me, science and faith are after separate goals.  You don’t scientifically test faith, and you don’t apply faith where science works well (the natural world).  This is why they can and should coexist — they serve different purposes, often to the betterment of us all by people with noble intentions.

But the Creationism of Ken Ham and the Creation Museum is not mainstream Christianity.  Many Christians from many faith traditions accept science and evolutionary theory while maintaining their faith.  Ken Ham wants you to conflate his narrow concept of Christianity (a fundamental, literal interpretation of a particular version of the Bible) with Christianity as it actually exists in the world.  But that conflation works to his advantage, because if we are choosing camps, and you identify as a Christian, you cannot “believe” evolution because a humanist (whatever that may mean to you), Bill Nye, is coming after your faith.

A Plea and Some Thoughts

No one person holds all the keys to our problems, so I would never be so bold as to say I have the answer.  Here, then, is my plea and a few thoughts.

I think what many scientists, myself included, are troubled by is hucksterism and charlatanism — snake oil salesmen dressed in religious or authoritarian garb using ignorance to fund their own ambitions and power.  But it is vitally important that we do not conflate that clear and present danger with faith overall.  Given that a majority of Americans identify as people of faith, broadly lumping them in with extremists serves no one and is very damaging.  My plea to my scientific colleagues is, stop doing that.  This is just as damaging as saying that people with no religious beliefs are evil, wrong-headed, and trying to subvert American culture.

As I have said before, fear, not data, is the bottom line here.  People are afraid that their faith is being attacked — once you are afraid, data (the currency of scientists) doesn’t really matter.  What scares people about science?  What scares them about evolution?  How, as scientists, do we work with the majority of people who can see the benefits of science as a tool but are afraid to compromise their spirituality?  That, to me, is the challenge of our time.

You will not convince those with extreme convictions to self-reflect and re-evaluate.  You can bring oceans of data and heaps of observations, but it will do you no good, because the debate is not really about science but about fear and emotion.  So, if Ken Ham and his followers are convinced they are right, having a debate only ever further convinces them that they are.  Do you really think Ken Ham would ever take the results of the debate as anything but a win if not just great publicity?

My last thought or plea: don’t debate Ken Ham and other so-called Creationists.  There are people convinced to their core that the world is flat – no amount of data and debate will sway them, and nothing much will be accomplished.  But they, like Ken Ham, do not represent the majority.  The majority is who we desperately need to reach.  Certainly, when such extremist views threaten to undermine science education, we should and must push back as the National Center for Science Education has admirably done.  That is very different, however, from going out of one’s way to have what will amount mostly to spectacle and the reinforcing of deeply held convictions on both sides.

Again, I like and respect Bill Nye a lot, and I think he has done wonders for science education in the United States. To Bill Nye and any other well-meaning scientists out there who want to improve science education, please do not debate Creationists — this is not the way to accomplish what we all want.

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8 thoughts on “Why I Believe Bill Nye Should Not Debate Creationism

  1. Actually Ken Ham’s website has many book sources whom authors (mostly career scientists) which contain much science data that successfully argues against macro evolution, which of course is center of the argument for the origin of man( or more generally species). I would hope that it is with that data that he will be debating just as I hope that Bill Nye will not result to emotionally centered degradation-minded tactics which is so common in this kind of debate. And unfortunately winning is the goal in most every debate, using tactical strategies such as ‘bait and switch’ and hyperbole versus using just plain ole empirical evidence i e- facts ( If we can just leave any labeling of ideology out of any presupposition to either view and stick with the facts). Unfortunately when one starts arguing using his believed “theory” (or opinion”) he cannot seem to disconnect that image of whom he believes HE IS personally- separate than the topic being discussed, whether that belief be the image of God or of the intellectually superior resulting from genetic superiority? I’ve repeatedly observed this ill behavior whether within a body of a church, or in the public square. Just plain ole self centeredness. It would be great if there will be made available a complete transcript of this debate so that I could black out all information argued that isn’t empirically achieved evidence vs opinion, in order to glean what substantive information will actually have been imparted. for posting. For hearing any commentary of the event from either of the beliefs might very well be, again, useless. I thank Dr Bonnan for his efforts to being fair and un-derogatory in writing this post

    • Hi Jeff,

      I do agree with you that separating personality and theatrics from a scientific debate are crucial. There is certainly conflation on all fronts — atheism with evolution, Christianity with creationism, etc. Where I would respectfully disagree is that Ken Ham and his supporters, while very vocal and well publicized, have yet to publish studies in accredited, peer-reviewed scientific journals where hypotheses can be tested and evaluated by the scientific community. And the problem boils down to this: God is not scientifically testable. Science is a wonderful tool for understanding the natural world, but that is also its limitation. God is, by all definitions, supernatural and thus beyond nature. That makes God fall outside the purview of science. It does not negate someone’s faith in God, but science is not the appropriate tool for dealing with questions of faith. So when Ken Ham and his supporters claim we need to teach Creationism alongside evolution, they are asking us to teach something not scientifically testable (God) alongside the scientifically testable (evolution). If you can’t test, falsify, and make predictive outcomes based on what you can detect using your five senses, it falls outside the realm of science. God cannot be tested in these ways, so what Ken Ham wants to do is not science but offering faith-based explanations as science.

  2. Oops, Correction. Ken Ham’s sight does not have in his store, the books that I have read and that I thought he had; authored by his fellow Creation minded scientists. Sorry for my error.

  3. Dr. Matthew Bonnan- I happened upon your site after seeing you quoted in an article on the debate. You seem to be doing well, sir. My son is currently obsessed with dinosaurs and wants to be a scientist when he grows

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